All the clues were there, but it's good to see official documentation from Iraq itself that they indeed had WMD's (other than the ones found after Liberation). But I doubt it will drag the heads of the liberals from under the sand yet. I guess they'd only be happy if Saddam had nuked somebody.
I am so amused. We should publish the schedule for which excuse we really meant to us to go in to Iraq.
July 29th-Aug8th there were WMD's Aug9th-Aug22nd spread freedom Aug23rd-Sep1st Saddam was a bad man Sep2nd-Sep12th Saddam caused 9/11 repeat through election day...
Saddam was contained and this administration felt the need to invade because he had said bad things about Daddy. Just admit failure and let's move on. You neocons are really becoming pathetic.
Penguin, your total misunderstanding of the situation in Iraq and the Middle East in general is glaringly obvious from your misinformed post. But I guess that's what you get when your only news source is CNN and Democratic Talking Points. Sad, really. You just don't get it, do you?
I think that "getting it" is in the eye of the beholder. As we learned with the yellowcake issue, a single report is not a smoking gun. This administration has a long history of selective release of data. The "True Believers" eat each of the tiny scraps up and magnify their importance ans THE proof.
There may be hundreds of reports that say the exact opposite of this one, but those won't be released until long after GWB is dead and unable to face criminal prosecution.
This administration is willing to twist intel to justify their policies even years after their lies and misrepresentations have been revealed.
If Iran and Syria are such a "slam-dunk" for being the real evil in the middle east, why don't we attack them. Why does Israel bomb Lebanon when they "know" that Syria and Iran are fighting a proxy war. I think that the true beleivers in the neocon movement are the ones that have shown that time and time again it is they who have misunderstood the middle east.
Please try again when you have obtained a clue as to what you are speaking of.
My point is that if Syria and Iran are the cause, why not attack them? Does bombing Lebanon actually get you to your stated goal of eliminating Hezbollah?
If you took a half of a second, you could have understood. Please take that extra second to read next time.
I dunno, penguin...maybe it's because rockets are being launched from Lebanon, not Syria and Iran?? The immediate priority is to prevent terrorists continuing to murder innocent Israeli citizens. So, penguin, why don't you go to the northern Israeli border and tell the family members of murdered Israelis that their own army should do nothing to stop the horrendous rain of rockets from Hezbollah that are killing them day in and day out. I'll pay your way if I get to watch.
I'll go to Northern Israel, if you'll go to Beirut and do the same there. You should reserve more time on your schedule, however, since 10 times more Lebanese have been killed than Israelis. Plus there is no doubt that those attacks are carried out by the duly elected politcal officials. Whereas in Lebanon the attacks are carried out by one of several political parties and the attacks are not endored by the elected leadership.
Hezbollah are lunatic fringe, kind of like the militia movement that we faced 10 years ago. Luckily, we have a strong and skilled government investigative apparatus and we could wipe it out through rule of law.
So maybe you think the Israelis should wait until Hezbollah kills one of them and then they can kill ONE Hezbollad member? Is that how you'd fight a war, playing tit-for-tat and being all "proportional?" You'd lose quickly, my friend. The only way to win a war is to make your enemy unable to continue the fight. So you think you can "wipe out" terrorists with laws? Good grief, man, have you ever been to war?
penguin, you remind me of the Democrat in this story:
"You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small children. Suddenly, an Islamic Terrorist with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, praises Allah, raises the knife, and charges at you. You are carrying a Glock .40, and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family. What do you do? .............................................................. Democrat's Answer:
Well, that's not enough information to answer the question! Does the man look poor or oppressed? Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack? Could we run away? What does my wife think? What about the kids? Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand? What does the law say about this situation? Does the Glock have appropriate safety built into it? Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society and to my children? Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me? Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me? If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me? Should I call 9-1-1? Why is this street so deserted? We need to raise taxes, have paint and weed day and make this happier, healthier street that would discourage such behavior. This is all so confusing! I need to debate this with some friends for few days and try to come to a consensus.
penguin, Hezbollah is responsible for each and every casualty in Lebanon. EVERY SINGLE ONE. Hezbollah deliberately wages war hiding behind innocent civilians to force the Israelis to attack them in that setting and sustain collateral damage in the form of civilian casualties. It's a deliberate form of terrorism carried out by terrorists who don't care how many of their people die as long as they make it look bad for their enemy on TV. Hezbollah is very media savvy, and will sacrifice anyone to make their point. Their press coverage is well planned, and they have succeeded in hoodwinking some gullible people around the world who have no clue how war is fought. Hezbollah has never abided by any agreements, negotiations, or cease fire plans. They violated the slow-down agreement today and forced Israel to continue air attacks. Hezbollah does not care, they will fight until they are no longer able. If this conflict ends without the dissolution of Hezbollah (by traumatic attrition) then they will only wait and attack Israel again at their leisure. Israel will be slaves to the terrorists who want to kill all Jews. Sound familiar? We fought a world war in the 1940's against just such an idea, and we won that one, thank goodness.
One could argue that we won the cold war by outspending the Soviets. Or perhaps it was because they were too authoritarian with their populace. Whatever. We will not be able to outspend these terrorists with our current policies. Have you noticed where the price of oil has gone in these past 2 weeks? Guess where that money is going? To Israel? No, it is going to Syria, Iran, and the Saudis. These are the very people funding Hezbollah. Do you honestly think tou can wide out hezbollah with a military event? How did that work with the Soviets? Remember Korea, Vietnam... Ringing any bells for you?
If the neocons don't recognize that the war we are fighting is a battle for hearts and minds, we are in for many more terrible decades. Iraq was not a "breeding ground for terrorists" until we made it one. Every dumb move we make (and they keep on comin') we increase the number of rats we have to kill in this war on terror.
I don't have any problem with attacks on Hezbollah positions. he problem that I have is that Israel has attacked ALL of Lebanon. They have basically destroyed the infrastructure of Lebanon, making it increasingly difficult for their military to disarm Hezbollah if they had the wherewithal to do it. Israel must see the irony of being the Goliath in this fight.
"If the neocons don't recognize that the war we are fighting is a battle for hearts and minds, we are in for many more terrible decades."
You CANNOT change the mind of someone on a religious crusade to kill each and every one that does not believe as he does. You can't reason or negotiate with someone who wants nothing but to destroy you and your way of life. The only way to combat folks like this is to render them incapable of killing you.
"Iraq was not a "breeding ground for terrorists" until we made it one."
Iraq still is NOT a breeding ground for terrs. It's a breeding ground for entrepreneurs and others enjoying a democracy for a change, with a few die-hard Fedayeen and the like still there. Others are foreign fighters following their fundamentalist Islamic calling to kill all Infidels.
"They have basically destroyed the infrastructure of Lebanon, making it increasingly difficult for their military to disarm Hezbollah if they had the wherewithal to do it."
Maybe you don't watch the news. Hezbollah are civilians and mount their attacks from civilian population centers. Then when they force the Israelis to attack them and cause collateral damage, they scream "Atrocity!" I thought we discussed this earlier. The surest way to stop Hezbollah is to cut off their lines of supply. Any army runs on beans and bullets. That's why the Israeli's interdict transport in from Syria and cratered the Beirut airport at the beginning. The Lebanese government in immature and does not have the military assets to defend itself against Hezbollah. It's a matter of resources; the Lebanses gov't doesn't have them.
jc spins:"Iraq still is NOT a breeding ground for terrs. It's a breeding ground for entrepreneurs and others enjoying a democracy for a change"
Are you kidding? Which of is living in lala land and watching FOX news exclusively? The death rate in Iraq is 10x what it is in Israel and Lebanon combined. Are people that attack a government building and kidnap a dozen people terrorists? Or, by virtue of the ransom note, are they entrepreneurs? It is you, sir, that is living in a fantasy world. People can't leave the green zone without flak jackets on. It is a dangerous friggin' country. Try changing the channel to a News station.
Finally, if you want to cut off their supply lines, then Syria and Iran should be bombed. But that would be difficult, since they might fight back...
First off, it's not the "Green Zone." How long since you've been there? And they're not "flak jackets." My suspicion is that you have never been to Iraq, and that you get your information from the mainstream news media, which shows mostly bombs and body counts. Like anything else reported, that's a tiny window on the country and what's going on there. If secondhand info from the news or blogs or whatever is all you have, then your view is skewed, I'm afraid. You don't know anything about it, you only know what other people have TOLD you about it. And most of those were liberally biased against the war or the conservatives, I'll bet. Though still a war zone it's also a burgeoning democratic financial and business stronghold in the region. Economic freedom is growing in leaps and bounds, and terrorists and their acts are an infinitesimal part of what's going on there. Secondly, every time you write something you resemble more and more the Democrat in the story I posted above this. Instead of taking action to save your own life and that of your family, you want to dilly-dally around and point fingers 2 countries away and say, "It's their fault!" LOL
All the clues were there, but it's good to see official documentation from Iraq itself that they indeed had WMD's (other than the ones found after Liberation).
ReplyDeleteBut I doubt it will drag the heads of the liberals from under the sand yet. I guess they'd only be happy if Saddam had nuked somebody.
I am waiting on the LGBBC to ackowlege it and admit they were wrong?... think' I'll take a nap.
ReplyDeletehahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
ReplyDeleteOh, It's posted on a blog, it must be true...
I am so amused. We should publish the schedule for which excuse we really meant to us to go in to Iraq.
July 29th-Aug8th there were WMD's
Aug9th-Aug22nd spread freedom
Aug23rd-Sep1st Saddam was a bad man
Sep2nd-Sep12th Saddam caused 9/11
repeat through election day...
Saddam was contained and this administration felt the need to invade because he had said bad things about Daddy. Just admit failure and let's move on. You neocons are really becoming pathetic.
Penguin, your total misunderstanding of the situation in Iraq and the Middle East in general is glaringly obvious from your misinformed post.
ReplyDeleteBut I guess that's what you get when your only news source is CNN and Democratic Talking Points.
Sad, really. You just don't get it, do you?
I think that "getting it" is in the eye of the beholder. As we learned with the yellowcake issue, a single report is not a smoking gun. This administration has a long history of selective release of data. The "True Believers" eat each of the tiny scraps up and magnify their importance ans THE proof.
ReplyDeleteThere may be hundreds of reports that say the exact opposite of this one, but those won't be released until long after GWB is dead and unable to face criminal prosecution.
This administration is willing to twist intel to justify their policies even years after their lies and misrepresentations have been revealed.
If Iran and Syria are such a "slam-dunk" for being the real evil in the middle east, why don't we attack them. Why does Israel bomb Lebanon when they "know" that Syria and Iran are fighting a proxy war. I think that the true beleivers in the neocon movement are the ones that have shown that time and time again it is they who have misunderstood the middle east.
Please try again when you have obtained a clue as to what you are speaking of.
penguin spewed:
ReplyDelete"Why does Israel bomb Lebanon when they "know" that Syria and Iran are fighting a proxy war."
Umm...I dunno..could it be because innocent Israeli citizens are being murdered by TERRORIST ROCKETS FIRED FROM LEBANON???
Talk about needing a clue....sheesh, penguin.
My point is that if Syria and Iran are the cause, why not attack them? Does bombing Lebanon actually get you to your stated goal of eliminating Hezbollah?
ReplyDeleteIf you took a half of a second, you could have understood. Please take that extra second to read next time.
I dunno, penguin...maybe it's because rockets are being launched from Lebanon, not Syria and Iran??
ReplyDeleteThe immediate priority is to prevent terrorists continuing to murder innocent Israeli citizens.
So, penguin, why don't you go to the northern Israeli border and tell the family members of murdered Israelis that their own army should do nothing to stop the horrendous rain of rockets from Hezbollah that are killing them day in and day out. I'll pay your way if I get to watch.
I'll go to Northern Israel, if you'll go to Beirut and do the same there. You should reserve more time on your schedule, however, since 10 times more Lebanese have been killed than Israelis. Plus there is no doubt that those attacks are carried out by the duly elected politcal officials. Whereas in Lebanon the attacks are carried out by one of several political parties and the attacks are not endored by the elected leadership.
ReplyDeleteHezbollah are lunatic fringe, kind of like the militia movement that we faced 10 years ago. Luckily, we have a strong and skilled government investigative apparatus and we could wipe it out through rule of law.
So maybe you think the Israelis should wait until Hezbollah kills one of them and then they can kill ONE Hezbollad member? Is that how you'd fight a war, playing tit-for-tat and being all "proportional?"
ReplyDeleteYou'd lose quickly, my friend. The only way to win a war is to make your enemy unable to continue the fight.
So you think you can "wipe out" terrorists with laws? Good grief, man, have you ever been to war?
penguin, you remind me of the Democrat in this story:
"You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small children.
Suddenly, an Islamic Terrorist with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, praises Allah, raises the knife, and charges at you.
You are carrying a Glock .40, and you are an expert shot.
You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family. What do you do?
..............................................................
Democrat's Answer:
Well, that's not enough information to answer the question!
Does the man look poor or oppressed?
Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack?
Could we run away?
What does my wife think?
What about the kids?
Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand?
What does the law say about this situation?
Does the Glock have appropriate safety built into it?
Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society and to my children?
Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me?
Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me?
If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me?
Should I call 9-1-1?
Why is this street so deserted?
We need to raise taxes, have paint and weed day and make this happier, healthier street that would discourage such behavior.
This is all so confusing! I need to debate this with some friends for few days and try to come to a consensus.
............................................................
Republican's Answer:
BANG!
penguin, Hezbollah is responsible for each and every casualty in Lebanon. EVERY SINGLE ONE.
ReplyDeleteHezbollah deliberately wages war hiding behind innocent civilians to force the Israelis to attack them in that setting and sustain collateral damage in the form of civilian casualties. It's a deliberate form of terrorism carried out by terrorists who don't care how many of their people die as long as they make it look bad for their enemy on TV. Hezbollah is very media savvy, and will sacrifice anyone to make their point. Their press coverage is well planned, and they have succeeded in hoodwinking some gullible people around the world who have no clue how war is fought.
Hezbollah has never abided by any agreements, negotiations, or cease fire plans. They violated the slow-down agreement today and forced Israel to continue air attacks. Hezbollah does not care, they will fight until they are no longer able.
If this conflict ends without the dissolution of Hezbollah (by traumatic attrition) then they will only wait and attack Israel again at their leisure. Israel will be slaves to the terrorists who want to kill all Jews. Sound familiar? We fought a world war in the 1940's against just such an idea, and we won that one, thank goodness.
One could argue that we won the cold war by outspending the Soviets. Or perhaps it was because they were too authoritarian with their populace. Whatever. We will not be able to outspend these terrorists with our current policies. Have you noticed where the price of oil has gone in these past 2 weeks? Guess where that money is going? To Israel? No, it is going to Syria, Iran, and the Saudis. These are the very people funding Hezbollah. Do you honestly think tou can wide out hezbollah with a military event? How did that work with the Soviets? Remember Korea, Vietnam... Ringing any bells for you?
ReplyDeleteIf the neocons don't recognize that the war we are fighting is a battle for hearts and minds, we are in for many more terrible decades. Iraq was not a "breeding ground for terrorists" until we made it one. Every dumb move we make (and they keep on comin') we increase the number of rats we have to kill in this war on terror.
I don't have any problem with attacks on Hezbollah positions. he problem that I have is that Israel has attacked ALL of Lebanon. They have basically destroyed the infrastructure of Lebanon, making it increasingly difficult for their military to disarm Hezbollah if they had the wherewithal to do it. Israel must see the irony of being the Goliath in this fight.
"If the neocons don't recognize that the war we are fighting is a battle for hearts and minds, we are in for many more terrible decades."
ReplyDeleteYou CANNOT change the mind of someone on a religious crusade to kill each and every one that does not believe as he does. You can't reason or negotiate with someone who wants nothing but to destroy you and your way of life. The only way to combat folks like this is to render them incapable of killing you.
"Iraq was not a "breeding ground for terrorists" until we made it one."
Iraq still is NOT a breeding ground for terrs. It's a breeding ground for entrepreneurs and others enjoying a democracy for a change, with a few die-hard Fedayeen and the like still there. Others are foreign fighters following their fundamentalist Islamic calling to kill all Infidels.
"They have basically destroyed the infrastructure of Lebanon, making it increasingly difficult for their military to disarm Hezbollah if they had the wherewithal to do it."
Maybe you don't watch the news. Hezbollah are civilians and mount their attacks from civilian population centers. Then when they force the Israelis to attack them and cause collateral damage, they scream "Atrocity!" I thought we discussed this earlier.
The surest way to stop Hezbollah is to cut off their lines of supply. Any army runs on beans and bullets. That's why the Israeli's interdict transport in from Syria and cratered the Beirut airport at the beginning.
The Lebanese government in immature and does not have the military assets to defend itself against Hezbollah. It's a matter of resources; the Lebanses gov't doesn't have them.
jc spins:"Iraq still is NOT a breeding ground for terrs. It's a breeding ground for entrepreneurs and others enjoying a democracy for a change"
ReplyDeleteAre you kidding? Which of is living in lala land and watching FOX news exclusively? The death rate in Iraq is 10x what it is in Israel and Lebanon combined. Are people that attack a government building and kidnap a dozen people terrorists? Or, by virtue of the ransom note, are they entrepreneurs? It is you, sir, that is living in a fantasy world. People can't leave the green zone without flak jackets on. It is a dangerous friggin' country. Try changing the channel to a News station.
Finally, if you want to cut off their supply lines, then Syria and Iran should be bombed. But that would be difficult, since they might fight back...
First off, it's not the "Green Zone." How long since you've been there? And they're not "flak jackets."
ReplyDeleteMy suspicion is that you have never been to Iraq, and that you get your information from the mainstream news media, which shows mostly bombs and body counts. Like anything else reported, that's a tiny window on the country and what's going on there. If secondhand info from the news or blogs or whatever is all you have, then your view is skewed, I'm afraid. You don't know anything about it, you only know what other people have TOLD you about it. And most of those were liberally biased against the war or the conservatives, I'll bet.
Though still a war zone it's also a burgeoning democratic financial and business stronghold in the region.
Economic freedom is growing in leaps and bounds, and terrorists and their acts are an infinitesimal part of what's going on there.
Secondly, every time you write something you resemble more and more the Democrat in the story I posted above this. Instead of taking action to save your own life and that of your family, you want to dilly-dally around and point fingers 2 countries away and say, "It's their fault!"
LOL