Human Events has details.
Noteworthy excerpt:
- Therapeutic cloning is a failure
- Cloning is illegal throughout Europe (even in France and at U.N.)
- Despite what you may hear, embryoes aren't thrown out by the thousands. Often they are saved for later or adopted by families.
- Adult stem cells and cord-blood cells have proved to be successful, and hae great potential.
- Embryonic stem cell research has yielded no real results.
Sigh
ReplyDeleteDebunking your Debunking
Embryonic stem cell research has yielded no real results.
Stemcell reasearch is very young as the quote below shows about as young as polio vaccine reasearch was in the early 1900's (probably younger since we are still in the basic science phase) and as we all know Jonas Salk didn't finish his successful vaccine until 1952. So applying your logic an argument could have been made to cut the funding for the program.
"In 1998, researchers at the University of Wisconsin led by James Thomson isolated and grew stem cells from human embryos, and researchers from Johns Hopkins University led by John Gearhart did the same for human germ cells. In 1999 and 2000, researchers began to find that manipulation of adult mouse tissues could sometimes yield previously unsuspected cell types; for example, that some bone marrow cells could be turned into nerve or liver cells and that stem cells found in the brain appear to be able to form other kinds of cells."
Debunking your debunking
ReplyDeleteAdult stem cells and cord-blood cells have proved to be successful, and hae great potential.
My response Yeah? And? So? What?
This is a false choice logical fallacy.
No one is suggesting that we not fund adult stem cell reasearch. They both have advantages and disadvantages. Using this logic I might say that we dont need acetaminophen, or ibuprofen because we have asprin.
From the NIH
"Embryonic stem cells can become all cell types of the body because they are pluripotent. Adult stem cells are generally limited to differentiating into different cell types of their tissue of origin. However, some evidence suggests that adult stem cell plasticity may exist, increasing the number of cell types a given adult stem cell can become.
Large numbers of embryonic stem cells can be relatively easily grown in culture, while adult stem cells are rare in mature tissues and methods for expanding their numbers in cell culture have not yet been worked out. This is an important distinction, as large numbers of cells are needed for stem cell replacement therapies.
A potential advantage of using stem cells from an adult is that the patient's own cells could be expanded in culture and then reintroduced into the patient. The use of the patient's own adult stem cells would mean that the cells would not be rejected by the immune system. This represents a significant advantage as immune rejection is a difficult problem that can only be circumvented with immunosuppressive drugs.
Embryonic stem cells from a donor introduced into a patient could cause transplant rejection. However, whether the recipient would reject donor embryonic stem cells has not been determined in human experiments."
"....for example, that some bone marrow cells could be turned into nerve or liver cells and that stem cells found in the brain appear to be able to form other kinds of cells."
ReplyDeleteLet's repeat the last of the points in the original post:
"Embryonic stem cell research has yielded no real results."
What part about "real results" do you not understand?
Show us the real results, not just the "coulda, woulda, shoulda" shuck and jive from the source you quoted.
I repeat what I just posted.
ReplyDeleteJust don't expect government to pay for your experiments, or to authorize more embryonic stem cells to be created.
Debunking your Debunking
ReplyDeleteDespite what you may hear, embryoes aren't thrown out by the thousands. Often they are saved for later or adopted by families.
No adoption happens very rarely. It is prohibitively expensive to maintaintese forever So yeah eventually they have to be thrown out
articles on frozen embryos
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/08/20/MN58092.DTL
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/09/60minutes/main1300667.shtml
article on embryo freezing
http://www.slate.com/id/2157669/
on snowflake babies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowflake_children
Debunking your Debunking
ReplyDeleteCloning is illegal throughout Europe (even in France and at U.N.)
Cloning is illegal here too. Clinton vigorously pushed through an anti-cloning law and made an executive order.
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9801/10/clinton.cloning/index.html?eref=sitesearch
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/dispatches/050413.html
"Coulda, woulda, shouda" don't get it.
ReplyDeleteDo all the embryonic stem cell research you want.
Just don't expect the public to fund it.
come talk to us when you have results.
Just don't expect us to buy your Michael J. Fox-type manipulated hype, and your "Christopher Reaves will walk again" nonsense.
The public is by large margins in favor of embryonic stem cell research. In a Democracy the majority should decide how our tax dollars are spent.
ReplyDeleteEmbryonic stem cells are a dead end. Since 2002, more than 80 research projects have been working on embryonic stem cells, over 900 papers have been published about human embryonic stem cells (as well as over 1000 about animal embryonic stem cells), and just last year 24 million dollars was spent on research. What have we figured out from all this? For one, embryonic stem cells cause cancerous growths. These growths are benign, but grow so fast that they can become fatal very quickly. Such growths are so common in fact that they are used as a test to see if a researcher is actually working with embryonic stem cells. Secondly, no one has cloned a human embryo yet. A couple of people have claimed to but one group was some religious cult trying to get on the news and the other turned out to be a hoax where the researcher pressured his female staff to donate eggs (a not particularly safe procedure). Third, we have seen from animal clone that what has been called a "successful clone" is simply one that is born alive. Our little friend Dolly had so many health problems that she had to be killed. So what guarantee do we have that , if human cells are even able to be cloned, that they will be healthy? The only way we could tell that is by letting them gestate to a point that we could see that they are developing properly and then abort them and take the cells we want (I don't think I need to go into all the ethical problems there). Fourth, you have the problem of the body rejecting the cells. Say you inject the cells into someone hoping that they repair their liver. They integrate throughout the liver and begin repairing, BUT the body begins rejecting the cells. The problem then is that they won't just reject those cells but the entire tissue in which the cells now reside!
ReplyDeleteMore important than anything lets get the facts straight. People complain that stem cell research has been stunted because of lack of funding and support. The truth is that they have had unlimited funding for animal embryonic stem cell research and they can't even get that working! If anyone is interested, just check out this article where a lot of what I have just said is spelled out a little more.
http://www.firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=5420
"In a Democracy the majority should decide how our tax dollars are spent."
ReplyDeleteThe United States of America is not a democracy. it is a republic.
Our elected representatives decide how our tax money is spent.
Decisions are not made by opinion poll results, especially those used by libthinkers who use push polls to build up phony "support" on a pet agenda issue.
wyx"The United States of America is not a democracy. it is a republic.
ReplyDeleteOur elected representatives decide how our tax money is spent."
LOL! HAHAHAHA That has got to be the funniest thing I've ever read on your blog. Man, you are a HOOT!
Yeah, this country is NOT a democracy. Oh man, you really make my day sometimes. God, how do you live with yourself anyway?
The things you'll say to try and shore up your side of an argument are so pathetic sometimes. I just don't know how or where to start with a rebuttal to that.
"I just don't know how or where to start with a rebuttal to that.'
ReplyDeleteStart by trying to understand the FACTS about what I said, and then try again.
There is no rebuttal, pal.
Read this before you embarrass yourself further.
Excerpt:
"The United States is a federal constitutional republic..."
If you had been paying attention before you dropped out of school in the 6th grade at the age of 18, you would have known that.
(Where DO these rocket scientists come from?)
Your wordsmithing of the issue does NOTHING to dilute the sheer audacity of your statement.
ReplyDeleteThe United States of America was founded in libterty and democracy. The elected officials represent the PEOPLE by way of their election. Not their OWN OPINIONS on matters.
If the people disagree with their opinons, they KICK THEM OUT OF OFFICE like what just happened in November. Or don't you read the newspapers Bubba?
Before you go spouting off to me that this country is not ruled by the people, I think you had better take more than a few steps backward and seriously think about what that statement means and where you want it to go.
Just because you belong to the "Republican" party doesn't mean that this country is not ruled by a democracy. Democracy means an ELECTED GOVERNMENT that acts on the will of the people. Please, *please* try to deny that's what we are. I want to see you get beaten up on this SOO bad.
Take me there, I beg you!
"Democracy means an ELECTED GOVERNMENT that acts on the will of the people."
ReplyDeleteSweet Mother of God, you are THICK!
The United States of America is a federal constitutional REPUBLIC.
The form of government we enjoy in the United States of America is not a democracy. It is a REPUBLIC.
Our elected representatives decide how our tax money is spent, and make other decisions delegated by the Constitution
Decisions are not made by opinion poll results, especially those used by libthinkers who use push polls to build up phony "support" on a pet agenda issue.
More here
Excerpts:
"James Madison explained the difference between a democracy and a republic in two of the essays he wrote for The Federalist Papers. In No. 14, he distinguished the two this way: 'In a democracy, the people meet and exercise the government in person; in a republic, they assemble and administer it by their representatives and agents,' he wrote."
Not enough?
Try this.
Excerpt:
"What we are to make of it is that America was never meant to be a pure democracy with "absolute majority will" ruling the country under the bumptious guidance of unruly masses. She was meant to be a strictly limited Constitutional Republic governed by level headed, high-minded men of sagacity and self-discipline whose chief function is to preserve individual rights rather than render them senseless and non-existent."
What part of all this do you not understand?