This man is totally brain dead! How in Hell were so many Americans fooled by him? I really have had more faith in the intelligence of my fellow man before this because I blamed their short comings on just plain old inattention. Guess I was wrong. BB
Except for those present on the porch, no one will know exactly what happened. The truth inevitably lies between the two tales. I imagine that the professor probably did show his ID but he likely didn't go about it in a friendly way. Regardless, imagine being arrested on your own front porch...for being there.
Beyond that, Obama clearly made a mistake when he said, "I don't know all the facts...but the officer acted stupidly."
"Except for those present on the porch, no one will know exactly what happened. The truth inevitably lies between the two tales."
No it doesn't.
We know EXACTLY what happened, through the police report, eyewitness testimony, and the open mike radio monitoring.
Gates acted like an entitled ass. Sgt. Crowley acted as the professional he is.
The unsupportable rationalizations for Gate's bad behavior, and the over the top responses from Obama, Patrick, the Cambridge mayor, and other so-called "progressives" are an out rage.
All of those people owe Crowley and police officers everywhere an immediate apology.
We need to let these race baiters know that the sense entitlement that they seem to think is their right is a foul and offensive misuse of the race card.
We will not allow these cretins to get away with further enablement of bad behavior in this area.
rahrah, Gates was not arrested for "being there." He actively pursued a violent and disorderly confrontation with the officer(s) which created a public disturbance. If a guy stopped for a redlight violation jumped out and started shooting at officers should they let him go because it's just a stop light ticket? Of course not. Gates chose to escalate the situation, not the officers. He dictated what happened to him, no the officers. He chose his path, now he's trying to shift the blame to anyone but him. He's just wrong.
I stand by my statement that the truth lies somewhere in between. I have read the police report, but I have found no eyewitness accounts or open mike audio. (If you have links, I'd be more than happy to look at them.)
As far as the police report goes...everybody observes things through a lens, and most often try to spin things, if only slightly to their own benefit. Unless there is video, we won't know EXACTLY what happened, as even audio leaves the visual out.
Still, Obama made the mistake. He should have declined to comment without all of the facts.
jaycee,
Gates should have acted better, it appears that his default reaction was combative, though I haven't seen anything to indicate that he became violent. Everyone should treat the police politely even when angry or in disagreement with them...that was Gates mistake. The racism that he saw was probably very real to him, one who had definitely experienced racism before in his life. I won't speculate whether or not the officer would have reacted differently had Gates been white, but I will say that, especially when tired or afraid, for most of us our perception is our reality (if it isn't all the time).
Gates could have acted differently, the officer probably could have as well...but hindsight is 20/20...beyond what's been said, there's not much point in discussing 'what actually happened,' a fine portion of it is speculation.
What is clear is that Obama's were hasty and he was wrong to make them, that and that politeness and understanding are what we should strive for in our encounters with others, be we laymen or law enforcement.
"I stand by my statement that the truth lies somewhere in between."
Then you need to go post at Cone's thread on this subject.
The subterfuge being thrown up there to confuse the issue and deflect attention away from Gates' bad behavior is simply astounding.
Witness Little Stevie Wonder Harrison trying to rally the Usual Suspect Cone goofballs by telling us that Sgt. Crowley purposely lured Gates on to the porch so he could arrest him for a public offense.
The Blue Bozo Brigade team members like Harrison have no compunction about inventing magic bullet theories when there's a worldview agenda item to prop up.
Not sure how Sgt. Crowley should have acted differently, unless you suggest he should ignore a public disturbance with civilian onlookers and just run away. That's not what he's paid to do. Some people just can't be talked out of going to jail. You talk and talk, try to quiet them down, try to walk away...but they just insist on making you arrest them. It appears Gates did this in front of his neighbors and several police officers. Gates made his own bed in which to lie.
rahrah, the article you cite expresses the opinion of a liberal former officer. I say liberal because he apparently writes for Vanity Fair. The common mantra among libs these days is that Sgt. Crowley lost his cool. I beg to differ. He tried to talk Gates out of being arrested. He tried to defuse the situation while still providing the level of service (determining that a break-in had not occurred) required by the initial complaint. He tried to leave. In the end, Gates forced the issue and made a public disturbance to the detriment of the neighborhood and in full view of civilians. Gates intentionally raised a ruckus due, I believe, to Gates's hatred of whites and police and Gates's efforts to inject racism into the situation when none existed before. (Gates: "As always, whitey now sits in judgment of me, preparing to cast my fate..." http://www.wtop.com/?nid=104&pid=0&sid=1725138&page=2) Yes, Sgt. Crowley could have run away like a little girl. But he didn't, he did what tens of thousands of officers have done in hundreds of thousands of similar cases--he arrested the person committing a crime. I've heard no comments from any witnesses or participants to indicate that Sgt. Crowley performed in anything but a controlled, professional manner. It was a fairly routine call, all officers handle hundreds or thousands like this in their career.
It's easy for us to speculate;it's not easy to know exactly what occurred. I think it near foolish to assume that the officer handled the situation perfectly just because he's an officer.
Bubba,
My feelings are not hurt...but I do try my best to treat you with respect and sometimes it is frustrating when you make no attempt to do the same.
rahrah, I'm not trying to assume anything or speculate. I'm looking at the evidence, and nothing has surfaced yet that shows the officer acted improperly. It was a routine call, he handled it in a routine manner. No muss, no fuss; just a normal arrest of a disorderly person.
A normal arrest of a disorderly person, in his home. There's no indication he was doing anything but yelling.
From a column I read:
"It is the U.S. Constitution, and not some competitive agglomeration of communities or constituencies, that makes a citizen the sovereign of his own home and privacy. There is absolutely no legal requirement to be polite in the defense of this right. And such rights cannot be negotiated away over beer."
rahrah, the information I've seen indicates Gates was outside, in public view, and there were civilian bystanders within sight and hearing of Gates. I've arrested plenty of folks in their own yard for disorderly conduct, it's a pretty common misdemeanor offense.
This man is totally brain dead! How in Hell were so many Americans fooled by him? I really have had more faith in the intelligence of my fellow man before this because I blamed their short comings on just plain old inattention. Guess I was wrong. BB
ReplyDeleteExcept for those present on the porch, no one will know exactly what happened. The truth inevitably lies between the two tales. I imagine that the professor probably did show his ID but he likely didn't go about it in a friendly way. Regardless, imagine being arrested on your own front porch...for being there.
ReplyDeleteBeyond that, Obama clearly made a mistake when he said, "I don't know all the facts...but the officer acted stupidly."
"Except for those present on the porch, no one will know exactly what happened. The truth inevitably lies between the two tales."
ReplyDeleteNo it doesn't.
We know EXACTLY what happened, through the police report, eyewitness testimony, and the open mike radio monitoring.
Gates acted like an entitled ass. Sgt. Crowley acted as the professional he is.
The unsupportable rationalizations for Gate's bad behavior, and the over the top responses from Obama, Patrick, the Cambridge mayor, and other so-called "progressives" are an out rage.
All of those people owe Crowley and police officers everywhere an immediate apology.
We need to let these race baiters know that the sense entitlement that they seem to think is their right is a foul and offensive misuse of the race card.
We will not allow these cretins to get away with further enablement of bad behavior in this area.
Period.
No "if"s, no "and"s, no "but"s.
End of discussion.
rahrah, Gates was not arrested for "being there."
ReplyDeleteHe actively pursued a violent and disorderly confrontation with the officer(s) which created a public disturbance.
If a guy stopped for a redlight violation jumped out and started shooting at officers should they let him go because it's just a stop light ticket? Of course not.
Gates chose to escalate the situation, not the officers. He dictated what happened to him, no the officers. He chose his path, now he's trying to shift the blame to anyone but him. He's just wrong.
Bubba,
ReplyDeleteI stand by my statement that the truth lies somewhere in between. I have read the police report, but I have found no eyewitness accounts or open mike audio. (If you have links, I'd be more than happy to look at them.)
As far as the police report goes...everybody observes things through a lens, and most often try to spin things, if only slightly to their own benefit. Unless there is video, we won't know EXACTLY what happened, as even audio leaves the visual out.
Still, Obama made the mistake. He should have declined to comment without all of the facts.
jaycee,
Gates should have acted better, it appears that his default reaction was combative, though I haven't seen anything to indicate that he became violent. Everyone should treat the police politely even when angry or in disagreement with them...that was Gates mistake. The racism that he saw was probably very real to him, one who had definitely experienced racism before in his life. I won't speculate whether or not the officer would have reacted differently had Gates been white, but I will say that, especially when tired or afraid, for most of us our perception is our reality (if it isn't all the time).
Gates could have acted differently, the officer probably could have as well...but hindsight is 20/20...beyond what's been said, there's not much point in discussing 'what actually happened,' a fine portion of it is speculation.
What is clear is that Obama's were hasty and he was wrong to make them, that and that politeness and understanding are what we should strive for in our encounters with others, be we laymen or law enforcement.
"I stand by my statement that the truth lies somewhere in between."
ReplyDeleteThen you need to go post at Cone's thread on this subject.
The subterfuge being thrown up there to confuse the issue and deflect attention away from Gates' bad behavior is simply astounding.
Witness Little Stevie Wonder
Harrison trying to rally the Usual
Suspect Cone goofballs by telling us that Sgt. Crowley purposely lured Gates on to the porch so he could arrest him for a public offense.
The Blue Bozo Brigade team members like Harrison have no compunction about inventing magic bullet theories when there's a worldview agenda item to prop up.
where's cone.
ReplyDeleteNot sure how Sgt. Crowley should have acted differently, unless you suggest he should ignore a public disturbance with civilian onlookers and just run away. That's not what he's paid to do.
ReplyDeleteSome people just can't be talked out of going to jail. You talk and talk, try to quiet them down, try to walk away...but they just insist on making you arrest them. It appears Gates did this in front of his neighbors and several police officers.
Gates made his own bed in which to lie.
Understand that I am not endorsing everything written in this article, but it offers insight into what the officer could have done differently.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-07-26/What-a-Cop-Is-Supposed-to-Do
You will love this place, rahrah.
ReplyDeleteMany of the contributors think just like you do.....and are just as consistently wrong as you are.
The condescension is unnecessary but thanks Bubba.
ReplyDeleteCone does not venture out very much, RahRah.
ReplyDeleteYou're supposed to go to him.
rahrah, the article you cite expresses the opinion of a liberal former officer. I say liberal because he apparently writes for Vanity Fair.
ReplyDeleteThe common mantra among libs these days is that Sgt. Crowley lost his cool. I beg to differ. He tried to talk Gates out of being arrested. He tried to defuse the situation while still providing the level of service (determining that a break-in had not occurred) required by the initial complaint. He tried to leave.
In the end, Gates forced the issue and made a public disturbance to the detriment of the neighborhood and in full view of civilians.
Gates intentionally raised a ruckus due, I believe, to Gates's hatred of whites and police and Gates's efforts to inject racism into the situation when none existed before. (Gates: "As always, whitey now sits in judgment of me, preparing to cast my fate..." http://www.wtop.com/?nid=104&pid=0&sid=1725138&page=2)
Yes, Sgt. Crowley could have run away like a little girl. But he didn't, he did what tens of thousands of officers have done in hundreds of thousands of similar cases--he arrested the person committing a crime.
I've heard no comments from any witnesses or participants to indicate that Sgt. Crowley performed in anything but a controlled, professional manner.
It was a fairly routine call, all officers handle hundreds or thousands like this in their career.
"The condescension is unnecessary..."
ReplyDeleteYou poor, pitiful poster! I feel so sorry for you!
Make an appearance there. Ask Cone to teach you about condescension. Tell him Bubba sent you.
He's the absolute master, regardless of whether he's actually entitled to said trait, or not.
Jaycee,
ReplyDeleteIt's easy for us to speculate;it's not easy to know exactly what occurred. I think it near foolish to assume that the officer handled the situation perfectly just because he's an officer.
Bubba,
My feelings are not hurt...but I do try my best to treat you with respect and sometimes it is frustrating when you make no attempt to do the same.
rahrah, I'm not trying to assume anything or speculate.
ReplyDeleteI'm looking at the evidence, and nothing has surfaced yet that shows the officer acted improperly.
It was a routine call, he handled it in a routine manner. No muss, no fuss; just a normal arrest of a disorderly person.
A normal arrest of a disorderly person, in his home. There's no indication he was doing anything but yelling.
ReplyDeleteFrom a column I read:
"It is the U.S. Constitution, and not some competitive agglomeration of communities or constituencies, that makes a citizen the sovereign of his own home and privacy. There is absolutely no legal requirement to be polite in the defense of this right. And such rights cannot be negotiated away over beer."
My understanding is that Gates was arrested in public, on the porch of the home, when he refused to calm down.
ReplyDeleteThat's what happens when someone is being disorderly in public.
There is NO defense/rationale/apology/explanation for Gates' bad behavior, and the enabling of such by quite a few "progressives".
rahrah, the information I've seen indicates Gates was outside, in public view, and there were civilian bystanders within sight and hearing of Gates.
ReplyDeleteI've arrested plenty of folks in their own yard for disorderly conduct, it's a pretty common misdemeanor offense.