Thursday, March 20, 2008

Cheerleading for the Greenway

There has been an effort in the local blahgosphere to keep the Greensboro Downtown Greenway project in the public eye. It seems as though there's a push to get public funding, and even an effort to get such funding on the bond referendum this fall.

Threads at Cone's, Allen Johnson's blog, and at Greensboro Politics.

One common theme: Ryan Shell and Sue Polinsky are leading the cheerleading effort, defending the project and being critical of anyone who dares ask questions about the financial appropriateness of potential public funding of the project.

From Cone's thread.....

Shell, criticizing Allen Johnson:

"I think what got under my skin is the fact that Allen simply wrote something negative about something he knows nothing about, other than a dollar figure."

To Cone's credit, he points out Shell's faulty criticism of Allen Johnson.

From Allen's Blog.......

Shell again:

"Allen,

I must say that this is an irresponsible post on your behalf."

Polinsky:

"I don't think I'd call this post 'irresponsible;' however, I'd certainly call it 'lacking facts.'


From Shell's blog, criticizing Allen:

Shell:

"Without any facts other than a dollar figure, the Greensboro News & Record’s Allen Johnson has attempted to bring negative attention to the proposed Downtown Greenway. "

Polinsky:

"Hardly a respectable position: be against something before you know a whole lot about it except maybe how it “feels” to you and without stating a lot of facts."

And, of course, on Shell's blog toward me, when I had the audacity to ask for a cost/benefit/usage analysis to be provided by AG and the cheerleaders.

He hasn't yet posted my last comment, which told him in no uncertain terms that he and Polinsky WILL NOT be allowed to provide instruction to me on what I think about this project.

We're all aware about how Polinsky operates, and now we're learning a little about the true nature of Shell.

The arrogance on this is starting to add up, and it's indicative of how people seem to think important decisions should be made about how Greensboro is run: Without full disclosure, and at the behest of the special interests who control our city.

Keep tuned.

It's time to take our own "special interest" in this project.

I plan to make this a signature issue.

UPDATE:

I have corrected the listings of Shell's last name in this thread.

19 comments:

  1. First, my last name is Shell. Second, comments are moderated and yours has been posted.
    Third, I try to keep the site factual and you stated that a "significant portion" of the project would be publicly funded. Rather than saying something of that nature it is better to provide a figure/percentage to back up your statement. I just feel that it is more constructive to do so.

    It's great that your asking questions but it would be nice if you gave the folks at Action Greensboro a little time to get their ducks in a row. It appears they came out of the box a little early.

    Ryan Shell

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  2. Greenway projects are all the rage, Bubba. We've had a big push for one in Asheboro. It's all about "economic development" . . . never mind the rights of private property owners (we don't seem to have any lately).

    It is not unlike the Asheboro City Council using public money to shore up private projects at Randolph Hospital (ala a cancer center the hospital is fronting for Cone hospital) . . . and giving money the city does not have away without so much as a public dicussion, much less a vote.

    There's so much one could go with here, it's hard to figure out where to start.

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  3. I stand corrected on your name.

    Pay attention to this:

    It's the responsibility of AG and the supporters of this project to make the cost/benefit/impact analysis if they expect to garner support for public funding. "Percentages" have nothing to do with it at this point.

    It's pretty obvious that the push is on to provide tax money for the majority of the funding for this project. If that was not the case, why the talk about putting the project on the ballot for a bond issue?

    I am particularly interested in seeing the "projected" costs per unique user,so that we might properly assign the true costs versus impact of public dollar spent.

    AG and the Cheerleaders apparently have no problem cranking up the PR machine to hype this thing as an "asset" to the community, yet YOY get testy when I ask for some cold, hard numbers to go along with the hype.

    Finally, know this: I will call BS on people every time I see it, particularly on issues of public interest like this. You don't get an exemption from this for any reason.

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  4. "There's so much one could go with here, it's hard to figure out where to start."

    And yet "we" are the problem, and the example of "Greensboro Malaise", or whatever term Polinsky used as a pejoritive toward people who refuse to kowtow to the "business as usual" ethic that is so ingrained in our city.

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  5. Hopefully your questions will be answered and we will all see the benefit at some point in the future.

    Thanks,

    Ryan

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  6. Ryan SEALS here... I just wanted to post here to clear up the record regarding my last name.

    I don't post on any blogs expressing my opinions on local politics or other matters in Greensboro that I may end up writing about in the N&R.

    I appreciate you going back and changing the last names Bubba, but please be more cautious in the future that you have the right person.

    Thanks,

    Ryan Seals

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  7. Bubba, I think you are right to question public funding of this project. I do not know whether eminent domain would be needed to acquire land to make it happen, but that would seem highly inappropriate.

    And as I have pointed out previously, the police in Greensboro are inadequate to the task of keeping it safe, particularly in the more crime-ridden parts of town.

    Joe Guarino

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  8. Joe,

    I know one of the miles will take place of a current railroad, another section will be granted an easement by Greensboro College and from what I have been told, much of the Greenway will be on city owned property.

    This is not a Ryan defends the Greenway post... I'm just trying to share what I have been told. Hope you find the info to be helpful.

    Ryan

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  9. Ryan Seals:

    I can appreciate you not wanting anyone to confuse you with Ryan Shell.

    I apologize for my previous error.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Greenway's are indeed a hot topic in most medium to large cities today. We here in Denton, Texas have been undergoing the debate off and on now for a number of years according to what I have read and heard. It would seem that the largest part of the Greenway would come from the abandoned railroad bed. The stickler is who should pay for it and I am sure that is the stickler in Greensboro as well,at least it was when I lived there in the mid to late 90's. Many were and are against taxpayer funds going for a project , paid for by many, and used by only a few. I can see their point. However I can see the other side of this two edged sword as well. Yes it is taxpayer funded. Yes in all probability it will be used by only a few. However the fact that it is there and is open for ALL to use should be sufficient grounds for use of at least some tax monies. Those who choose to use or not to use(and it is a choice) the walking paths, bike paths etc that are usually located within these Greenways for the most part taxpayers so justification is not hard to find.
    However to quell the arguments of taxpayer funding I believe that private groups should also take some community responsiblity and contribute to the building of these Greenways. Then, IMO, you have the best of the situation.
    I remember speaking against such Greenways in the G'boro area when I lived there basically due to the fact that it seemed the entire project would be taxpayer funded and again, IMO, the taxpayers of G'boro are already saddled with enough taxes. Second since county residents would be using the facilities it seemed unfair that only G'boro residents were going to bear the brunt of the load.

    The same situation occured here in Denton, TX. Finaly the situation was resolved and several corporate and private organizations pitched in with the taxpayer and now the Greenway is up and going and expanding. No private lands were taken in the building of the Greenway. From memory, no private lands were to be taken in building the G'boro Greenway.
    I know of only one city who managed to pull the theft of private lands off to build what they consider a Greenway and that was Asheville, NC where I once lived. The fact that it is not a true Greenway but a business development with walkways, bike paths and doggie parks has rubbed in the craws of the local taxpayers there for years and continues to be an open battle every time bike paths or such is mentioned. G'boro would be wise to take note of both these situations and choose wisely. That's just my opinion.

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  11. "Many were and are against taxpayer funds going for a project, paid for by many, and used by only a few."

    AG certainly hasn't seen fit to release any info they have on this point. Yet there's a call for this issue to be put to the voters as a bond initiative on the fall ballot.

    Amazingly enough, NO ONE is yet willing to put the price tag to the public out for consideration.

    Yet somehow, all of us who dare to raise this question get accused of suffering the "Greensboro Malaise" by people like Polinsky.

    "G'boro would be wise to take note of both these situations and choose wisely."

    Some don't see "choosing wisely" as a smart thing. They see it as an impediment.

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  12. The word I used was "malady." You should probably correct that, too.

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  13. Always there with a "diagnosis", aren't you Sue?

    Too bad they're never correct.

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  14. "The word I used was "malady." You should probably correct that, too."

    Why?

    Merriam-Webster online:

    malady

    1 : a disease or disorder of the animal body 2 : an unwholesome or disordered condition

    malaise

    1 : an indefinite feeling of debility or lack of health often indicative of or accompanying the onset of an illness

    2 : a vague sense of mental or moral ill-being (a malaise of cynicism and despair — Malcolm Boyd)

    Your original quote:

    "Ryan, it’s always easier to be negative and not offer to work on community projects than it is to do the opposite. It’s part of the 'Greensboro Disease,' or as I prefer, 'malady.'"

    "Malaise" is much more appropriate to the inappropriate and obnoxious point you were attempting to establish.

    I'll just settle for correcting you.

    It's something that usually needs to be done every time you "contribute".

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  15. Bubba,

    It really is unfortunate that you feel the need to make comments like, "I can appreciate you not wanting anyone to confuse you with Ryan Shell." You don't know me so please don't act like you do.

    I have tried to keep this conversation civil and I would appreciate it if you do the same. I have tried to help inform you and offer simple explanation for items that can not be answered at this time.

    Before you make another statement that makes it seem like no one likes me, or that I am a bad person I suggest we meet and you get to know me. I have been a proponent for many things that you might consider to be "good" and simply because their has been a disagreement over one thing... I am now a bad person?

    You mentioned that no one has publicly put a price tag on the Greenway. Had you called AG like I suggested they would have told you that the route isn't even 100% complete... there are many variables that go into cost and AG very well might not have an answer for you at this time.

    If one demands to know so many answers at the early stage of any project, I suggest they get involved with the project itself.

    Ryan Shell

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  16. "If one demands to know so many answers at the early stage of any project, I suggest they get involved with the project itself."

    Ryan, I am sorry. That is just a load of horse-hockey (and before you even start - that's not a "personal attack").

    Perhaps some of these civic projects should be better-planned and more thought-out (rather than the usual wink & nod routine from those-who-know-best) BEFORE people start posturing for public support and public money.

    The fact that (very fair) questions cannot be answered is more that a little troublesome to me. Get your ducks in a row - then make your case. Don't ask for the money first and expect us all to merrily follow.

    That's the way business had been done in North Carolina FOR YEARS. If you have not noticed, our current "climate of corruption" proves it's probably not the way to do the people's business anymore. We've been hosed over and over and over again.

    P.S. Register with Blogger so your name/blog will come up and Bubba won't have these problems.

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  17. ""I can appreciate you not wanting anyone to confuse you with Ryan Shell."

    You're being a little over sensitive,.

    Seals is a journalist who does not express an opinion in public for reasons of professional ethics.

    Feel free to email me to discuss this privately.

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  18. "That's the way business had been done in North Carolina FOR YEARS. If you have not noticed, our current 'climate of corruption' proves it's probably not the way to do the people's business anymore. We've been hosed over and over and over again."

    Exactly.

    No more "business as usual".

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  19. "Had you called AG like I suggested they would have told you that the route isn't even 100% complete... there are many variables that go into cost and AG very well might not have an answer for you at this time.


    Then why are people talking about any tax payer funding, like floating a bond issue, at this point?

    ReplyDelete